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Vincent Transmission
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One, Two, Three, Four
Adjusting the Gearchange: The
alloy block (G49) swings in an arc. If you loosen the two bolts (327)
and turn the eccentric hollow bolt (G57), you will find you are able to
turn to high point and low point, the starting position would be the Middle
of this travel, then tighten bolts. Once you have placed gear indicator
shaft in Second gear, you turn slightly the shaft to have equal gap
either side of that segment by altering the position of the small plate
(G61), some have " Ears " some not, this was a modification or to suit
those gear changes which were hard to adjust. The ears restrict travel
to not over or under shoot the gear engagement... at times one may need
to bend the ears slightly. You must make allowances for any Play
or Backlash .. or find another gear shaft with good segment, etc.
Once you have done this and satisfied, you select the best position in
gearbox by turning rear wheel slightly, so you can Swipe through All the
gears with gear indicator lever from bottom to top. It may
take a bit of fine play to achieve. Place in Second gear after with
indicator. The reason for this is so you can with Gear Change Lever
select up or down in One clean movement. The full travel of
lever must hit the Stop in alloy block Both directions. If it doesn't
and the gear falls in or fails to engage, then you alter slightly
the position of alloy block to suit. This takes longer to explain
than do. Mike White 5/1/09
Quaife 5 spd Gearbox:
http://www.quaife.co.uk/shop_image.cfm/image/681/product/Vincent%205-speed%20Quaife%20gearkit
Glad you could read the Issue 3 G/A drawing dated
27.03.03. More info below:
If it's of any interest, here are the ratios
of the Quaife / Surtees 5-speed Vincent
box:
1st 1:2.46
2nd 1:1.61
3rd 1:1.34
4th 1:1.075
5th 1:1
...and the drive sequences (numbers refer to the
two end digits of the Quaife part numbers on the G/A drawing):
1st Selector 20 Leftward
28 -> 29 -> 13 -> 09 -> 18 -> 07
2nd Selector 20 rightward
28 -> 06 -> 14 -> 13 -> 09 -> 18 -> 07
3rd Selector 21 rightward
28 -> 06 -> 16 -> 18 -> 07
4th Selector 22 leftward
28 -> 06 -> 03 -> 13 -> 09 -> 18 -> 07
5th Selector 22 rightward
28 -> 06 -> 07
... and the small items' descriptions:
Item 2 (2 of): thrust washer (however, this part
shown next to layshaft gear A-1E1-18 absent on my box, as that gear is
a driven interference fit to layshaft spline tapers).
Item 172: needle roller bearing
Item 292: C-clip
Item 586: needle roller bearing
Item: 675: seal
A-1E1-04: thrust washer
A-1E1-05: plain bush
A-1E1-08: thrust washer
A-1E1-11: plain bush
A-1E1-12 (2 of): thrust washer
A-1E1-15: plain bush
A-1E1-17: plain bush
I guess A-1E1-18 wasn't manufactured as one with
the layshaft as they couldn't have machined the dogs that way.
Box main parts shown at http://www.quaife.co.uk/shop_image.cfm/image/681/product/Vincent%205-speed%20Quaife%20gearkit
Phil Blakeny 6/9/08
Comet Trans:
Correct one is BAP. The B52/CP/GB boxes are all the wrong sizes
cases; shorter shafts and different gears/selectors from the pre and post-war
Comets. One can make expensive mistakes buying these boxes in the
belief they are BAP ones. Don't ask me how I know... Peter Barker
4/15/08
Burman Drawings: http://vincenthrd.se/skisser.php
Various Grease/Oils for Burman Trans.:
* Castrol Spheerol L-EPO Semi-fluid self-levelling
grease suitable for centralised lubrication systems and grease filled gearboxes.
* Penrite Semi-Fluid grease for Burman
boxes. It is best to do it on a warm day (or lace the container in
a bowl of hot water) otherwise it takes an eternity to fill.
Do not try to run the bike for a few hours after filling as it takes a
while for the grease to find its own level. Some people add about 50 ml
of light oil too.
* Millers of Brighouse sell a grease Delta
EP000 in 3 Kg drums for a tenner. See their website for depots.
Very liquid.
Burman Gearbox Oil:
It can be a cause of rapid bushing, etc. wear if the grease
is too thick and does not flow readily. The
gears will tend to cut a track through it after which it does not
flow into them continously. Also it will not enter tight bushing
clearances. I suggest a small quantity of soft grease
followed by sufficient 90 wt. gear oil to acheve
the correct level. This way the soft grease gets carried into
any leakage paths sealing them while the job of real lubrication
is delt with by the gear oil . This works nicely
in our Meteor and if not overfilled it rarely shows
any seepage. Sid 6/18/07
I have a Comet
with a Commando gearbox. I fitted a main
shaft seal from the Spares Company so that I could use automatic transmission
fluid in the primary drive. I mounted the gearbox sufficiently to the left
so that there was room behind the clutch for a plate carrying an oil seal.
I was able to do this as I had mounted the gearbox in a fixed location
and fitted a twin chain tensioner blade, suitably narrowed in the
primary chaincase. All the springs were removed from the Vincent ESA and
the two halves welded together, the shock absorbtion being handled by the
rubber inserts within the standard Norton clutch. This results in a rigid
assembly and a very sweet transmission. There is absolutely no justification
for fitting a triplex chain to a Comet, there's isn't enough torque there
to require it. Roy Cross
It is possible to get the gearbox
out of the Comet without dismantling the
whole machine though obviously the clutch will have to be removed. It all
depends on the two chain adjuster bolts that allow the gearbox to swivel
backwards and forwards for primary chain adjustment. Ideally all you need
to do is to unscrew these two bolts and remove the gearbox mounting bolts
and with a lot of cursing and 'ackling' (wriggleing about) it will come
out. Warning ! Unfortunately it is usually impossible to remove the chain
adjuster bolts as in service the working ends that bear on the lower gearbox
mounting bolt bell out. Any attempt to remove them will strip the threads
in the gearbox casing. However I have managed to remove and replace several
Comet gearboxes over the years with bolts that were belled out. It is a
tedious process requiring much patience. What is needed is to keep adjusting
the positions of the adjuster bolts relative to each other and by trial
and error, so far, I have always found a position where I can wiggle the
gearbox out. Tightening of the Gearbox is usually the drive side layshaft
bearing. Heavy
grease never gets to it hence the advice to put
in the odd spoonfull of engine oil. Hugo 3/10/07
Pre-war, the Burman BA-
BAP traansmission was made with three
sets of gears:
* HS, which is the set we know on the post-war
Comets.
* LS, which appears to be Trials: only the constant
mesh (4th.) gears differ from the HS.
* TT gears as fitted to competition models.
Post war, only the HS ratios seem to have been
manufactured, and as we know, the Flash used the Albion box, for which
a wide selection of gears were available. I do not consider either
the HS or TT gears were really the correct ratios for their respective
uses. It would, of course, be possible to redesign each set, which would
probably mean replacing virtually every gear in the box. However,
for road use, there is an interesting compromise based uniquely on pinions
which once existed: to use the standard 1st. and 2nd. pairs which presumably
exist in your present box, in reasonable condition, with the TT 4th. and
3rd. pairs of gear- that is, changing 4 pinions. This would give
ratios of 1:1, 1.16, 1.45 and 2.3, or 100, 86, 68 and 43%.
Bruce McNair 2/9/02
Pre-war Burman Transmission
spares list:
http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.wirdnam/sq4/1930/burman_frameset.htm
Synthetic oil is banned
from being used with our kind of bearings, simply because the coefficient
of friction is too low for the rollers and balls to rotate, causing them
to skid, and wear with flats on them. Any one out there have any Long term
usage with Synthetic, e.g. Mobil 1 ? And had a look at the results.
Trevor
A quick check for gear changing
problems is to change gears with one hand - with the bike on
the rear stand - whilst restraining the indicator lever G81's travel by
holding the indicator with the other hand. When the gear lever has
reached the end of its travel carefully check to see if there is anymore
movement of the indicator lever to fully engage the gear being selected
by moving the indicator lever in the same direction it was travelling.
If there is any more movement of the indicator lever required then the
camplate G32 is not travelling far enough by gear lever operation.
If this symptom can not be cured by adjusting the selector mechanism
then the cast alloy block G49 needs opening out with a file to allow more
travel. Check that this is infact the problem by carefully adjusting G57
stoplate adjuster so that more movement of G81 is required to engage both
3rd and 4th gear.
This will prove the need for the block to be opened out - a fairly simple
job with a file and G49 in a bench vice 'a little at a time' till you have
the right amount of travel - being careful to remove the metal off the
place on G49 that stops the travel of the gear lever or maybe a little
off both stops with G57 in the centre of its travel ( to make allowance
for future adjustment). G49 has a concave shape where the metal has to
be removed - there is no need for this shape, a flat surface is all that
is required to limit the travel of the gear lever.
I have had to carry out this job on at least 3 separate bikes after
which the gear change has been transformed - having giving the gear lever
just that little extra travel.
I have also discovered the importance of adjusting the battery carrier
nuts E80 to compensate the load on the pivot bearing plate G50 when the
foot rest hanger bolt is nice and tight for a really nice gear change.
If there is any stiffness in the gear change when the engine is hot - try
slackening off the hanger bolt just to see if this is the adjustment needed.
If so, adjust the 2 E80 nuts outwards and pinch up the foot rest hanger
bolt again and carry on riding. Andrew Rackstraw
8/14/00
When you get a situation where the box jumps
out of top gear as your try to grab a handful , the usual reason
is that the detent did not go into its position on the camplate, this is
the positive position. On some later machines you can find that the
detent Cannot even get that far. The G39 being stopped from rotating into
position by the bevel stop pin. This can only be checked on assy. with
the gearbox assembled and with the detent out, look into hole to see where
the camplate is. If you have had a problem with top gear jumping,
this is the cause. Trevor 8/14/00
Denny Delzer asks why his gearbox jumps out of second gear ? This means
that the detent is not sitting in the
camplate perfectly, this could be for two reasons.
1 On changing gear the gear pedal is depressed too lightly , allowing
the gear to change but the detent does not sit in position.
2 The set up of the gearbox does not allow the detent to sit in position.
Even if you have as you say NOS parts or good condition parts in the
box, this is not a reason to say there is nothing wrong.
So what you have to do to check out the set up, is to remove the detent
and visually check if the camplate is in position, when the box is in second
gear. If it appears to be, replace the detent spring, and test ride.
If the problem still occurs you have a problem with the set up. The only
way to check then, is to use my checking fixture and sort out the
problem. I won`t begin to tell you what could be wrong. I`ve lost
count. Trevor 6/16/00
Improvements to
shift quality
Many - even most of the Vincent
motors we have dealt with in our work lack one small but extremely valuable
Works up-grade dating back to the very early years. A simple looking
alteration first suggested by one of the fine road-testers active then,
one Bob Brown. Very keen and dissatisfied with the tendency to over-shift
present in too many units that he rode -Bob came up with the notion of
adding restraining tabs or ears to both sides of the pawl carrier centralizer
plate G 61. This became G 61 /1 with the addition of two projecting motion
stops brazed one to each fore and aft edge. So utterly simple it
seems, yet properly positioned truly worth more than its weight in Gold.
Perhaps because it is not so drawn in our B/C Parts Books yet
carries the corrected part number. Few have picked up
on it and the magic it performs. My first exposure and explanation
came to me way back in 1953 while shoping at the Works Spares counter where
the modified piece was handed me and called the Bob Brown Special.
Friendly chap behind the counter there confided that I'd surely want one
of these as he dropped it into me waiting hand.
There is a subtle touch to getting it swung just so in order to
derive the best results out of those metal stops that Ill try to
convey to you my friends. The aim is to snub off excess inertia /
momentum imparted to the spinning cam plate during a too spirited
shift . This energy tends to rotate the plate past its next notched
position -- forcing excess rotation to drive the plate - lifting the indexing
plunger up out of that desired notch and so allowing further rotation towards
- or into the following ratio selection. Over selection results
. My experiance when fettling these pieces is to allow the ratchet to closely
approach - not enter fully - the up coming notch. Notice my word
choice carefully . Closely approach only and Not fully enter the cam plate
notch. Thus the tab contacts and acts to slow/snub off the
excess speed, to where the spring driven detent plunger can take
over control and deliver sweetly to the bottom of the notch, that
unwanted momentum already absorbed in the slight flexing of the arresting
stop. Only the spring pressure remains to fully seat the plunger into it's
homing notch. Barely any of the shift lever thrust and rotational
energy exists in the plate as it enters the edge of the notch slope.
Duplicated in both directions and I've seen very little
need to bend the stops much, and the shift becomes dead reliable and pleasing
beyond words. Much of the ease and sweetness is dependant on full clutch
release, and I shall delve into that clouded subject in my
next effort , however let me say that after all these decades
I am still and ready to prove that the original Vincent clutch can
deliver better feel and function than a multiplate conversion
for greater mileage and less parts wear than any in my experiance.
S.M. Biberman 21 Mar 2000
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